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  • WOW! Holed Durban Club 6d sells for nearly ZAR3,000

    It is clear that South African token coins are coming into their own.

    I have watched the ebb and flow on prices of these tokens for some years now but the sale this week of a holed Durban Club 6d reflects, in my view, the true numismatist.

    See: Tokens - ## EXTREMELY RARE 1860 DURBAN CLUB 6D TOKEN ## was sold for R2,775.00 on 7 Jun at 21:31 by Gecko Coins in Port Elizabeth

    The coin is very worn on one side exasserbating its inherent flaws.

    What it has going for it is that there are less than 30 pieces of each of the three Durban Club varieties remaining in existence.

    What makes this sale so special is that if it was a regular holed union SA piece there is no way, in proportion to the prices paid for unholed pieces, it would have sold for the price it did. What I am saying is that collectors would, for example, pay a fraction of the price on an investment 1931 tickey compared to a holed, ex-jewellery, cleaned etc... piece!

    There is something very special about the history and the collectors of tokens - they are, as I intimated above, true numismatists. The history resides in the coin - feel its history when you hold it in your hand! Then, in my view, you will understand the passion of so many numismatists who have gone before!

    My good friend Milner Snell is currently working on limited edition books on the history of trading stores in East Griqualand... just owning a coin is not good enough for him. I take my hat off to Milner and look forward to seeing the books!

    Kind regards


    Scott Balson
    Last edited by ndoa18; 08-06-10, 07:58.

  • #2
    Hi Scott

    Thats the beauty and thrill of collecting TOKENS. Its the history behind the item that determines what price it should sell for. Unlike coins, tokens are collected in any grade or condition even if holed like this Durban Club 6d. With the Durban Club Token being used in 1860, it makes the piece a very desirable item and you are correct in saying that the number in existance is far a few inbetween. Very few people have all three varieties in their collection and to obtain one in virtually UNC condition is unheard of.

    I agree with you, TOKENS are now seeing the light of day, and people are begining to see the value, history and enjoyment in owning a part of South African history in the form of a TOKEN.



    Cheers
    Last edited by Coinoisseur; 08-06-10, 12:35.
    Anthony G
    The measure of a numismatist is not how much he profits from the hobby,
    but how much the hobby profits from him.

    Comment


    • #3
      Great news!

      Well done and congrats to the token collectors.

      I also saw last night that a Proof 1892 ZAR Tickey sold for R125 000.00 on Bid-or-Buy.

      Isn't that just super news?!

      Pierre

      Comment


      • #4
        Hi Pierre

        Excellent news that the tickey sold for R125000. Payment was received the next day. It's a stunning coin being the only cameo graded. The new owner will love this one.

        ZAR market is picking up well :)

        It's been a while since a coin sold over the R100k mark on bid or buy.


        Regards,

        Ewaan Galleries
        sigpic

        Comment


        • #5
          Well done guys

          Well done to you and your team Mohammad

          You have done SA Numismatics proud...

          Pierre

          Comment


          • #6
            Hi Pierre

            Yes the coin that sold is a superb specimen. Good quality coins will always be in demand and command a premium.


            Cheers
            Anthony
            Anthony G
            The measure of a numismatist is not how much he profits from the hobby,
            but how much the hobby profits from him.

            Comment


            • #7
              Hi there.. Please forgive my ignorance, but why is a coin "holed"? I recently found an 1889 Victoria DG Crown in my mom's things, with a hole in the top like the one in the link above. I have absolutely no knowledge of coins whatsoever, so was wondering what this was worth? Thanks, Kerri.
              I know not what World War 3 will be fought with, but World War 4 will be fought with sticks & stones - Albert Einstein.

              Comment


              • #8
                Hi all,

                I have a copy of Milner Snell's book "Tokens of the Transkei" (including East Griqualand) published in 2007.

                It seems that every second trading store in that area had to use tokens in the latter part of the 1800s and early 1900s otherwise trade would not have been possible.It was a widespread phenomenon.

                He gives a really detailed history of no fewer than 14 different classes of tokens divided into Trading Stores that were used along with the history of these intrepid traders. Very few of these Tokens except S&Co are ever seen for sale and must be extremely rare. The preface to the publication is given by Allyn Jacobs who co-authored Hern's Books on Tokens and must have the biggest collection of Tokens in South Africa.

                The Tokens mentioned are; Dawood Amod & Co ,Dave Black of Tsitsa Bridge,James Cole,James O'Hagan,The Kreb Family,C.Larkan,L.P.Moore,Matatiele Milk Depot,Nobiya Dairy,W.W.Phillips,George Roe Scott,Edward Sparg of Makwababa,Strachan &Co , St Barnabas' Anglican Mission.

                Every Token is given its story and some are truly fascinating that enliven what is otherwise an ugly piece of metal. James Cole (former farm manager for Cecil John Rhodes 1870-71) probably the best and at times hilarious.

                Extracts; According to Cole's great granddaughter Mrs Pie Dorning, James (Cole) issued tokens after having a disaggreement with his bank manager who refused to extend his overdraft...Whyte ,who owned a store in Umzimkulu district ..writes of James....so he started a currency of his own using it in payment for all local purchases (in 1882- a time of recession)

                He died on 23rd April 1937 two months after his 96th birthday. James (Cole) left an estate which included 54 farms,52 erven,the entire village of Franklin,12 013 head of cattle,22 992 head of sheep and 18 trading stores.Total value 419,390 Pounds

                An indication of how scarce James Cole Tokens are was that when a friend of mine had a few sets that came down from Kokstad area a year or two ago, there was instant demand from even dealers like Peter Bowles and Brian Hern.

                Durban Club Tokens are certainly very popular because they were issued in 1860 and were the first tokens issued in South Africa. They do however come up for sale periodically on UK auctions especially along with other more common Tokens and on their own.

                Milner Snell is a teacher in Kokstad and copies of his work should be available - I have his email adress.

                Geejay
                Last edited by geejay50; 09-06-10, 07:37.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Tokens of East Griqualand

                  Hi Georg

                  I know Milner very well – at a personal level. We are in regular email contact (heard from him this week). We have met several times when I came to South Africa and he is a wonderful host. He has personally taken me to see the old Griqua settlement at Mount Currie, up the Griqua church tower in Kokstad and on a memorable day trailing up the Ongeluksnek.

                  His book on the tokens of East Griqualand was self published and I am sure that he would print more copies if the demand was there. The book, and his books on Strachan and Co and "A small river in a great valley", should be in the library of all serious coin collectors in South Africa. He is currently finalising a couple of new books on trading stores in the region. What you failed to mention is that Milner is also the Chair of the Kokstad Museum and a passionate token coin collector.

                  With regards to the tokens used in this remote region you raise a very important point. The reason just about every trading store in East Griqualand produced its own coinage was because of the extreme shortage of currency of the crown in this remote region. This point was first raised in the book I published with Dr Clive Graham in 1978 (Kence, the trade tokens of Strachan and Co) and is further discussed in my book (2006) on the Griquas and their money.

                  It is a fact that there are more trading tokens appearing from this small remote region than across the whole of the rest of South Africa combined making all the coins from East Griqualand - but especially the rarer of the coins like Creighton, Dawood Amod, St Faiths, Moore, Phillips, Roe Scott and Oldfield (a more recent find) highly sought after by collectors. The finest collection of coins from this region is owned by Johannesburg collector Allyn Jacobs, who you mention. I had the pleasure of viewing Allyn's collection at his home in 2006 and 2007. (I introduced Allyn to Milner several years ago).

                  The catalyst for trade and tokens in this remote region in the late 1800s was, without doubt, the Griquas desire to “buy or barter anything” – a weakness that resulted in so much pain for them right through their tragic history.

                  I would dispute your suggestion that the use of TRADE token coins in the concentration seen in East Griqualand was a widespread phenomenon across South Africa in the late 1800s. Mines like De Beers used (staff) tokens as a form of forcing labourers to buy from their stores (hardly trade tokens as British currency was circulating in these mining regions) - very different to the reason Dawood Amod, James Cole or others issued TRADE tokens.

                  PS Milner introduced me to Pie Dorning in 2006 – we had dinner together – lovely lady!

                  Finally if you go to this thread you will see my notes and comments about the Durban Club 6d - includes images of all the varieties...
                  http://forum.bidorbuy.co.za/coins-no...-tokens-3.html


                  Kind regards

                  Scott Balson
                  Last edited by ndoa18; 09-06-10, 09:20.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    There's a hole in my token dear Kerri dear Kerri...

                    Originally posted by kebs View Post
                    Hi there.. Please forgive my ignorance, but why is a coin "holed"? I recently found an 1889 Victoria DG Crown in my mom's things, with a hole in the top like the one in the link above. I have absolutely no knowledge of coins whatsoever, so was wondering what this was worth? Thanks, Kerri.
                    I could be horribly wrong, but I think it is holed because someone drilled a hole through it to use as jewellery
                    "Truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Yes and ruined it in the process.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        The type 2 Durban Club token is in my opinion a rare token seldom offered for sale.

                        Although holed, the token is still in acceptable collectable condition and until another better specimen comes along at a price you can afford, should be treasured as such.

                        Token collectors cannot always be chosers of the finest specimens around - there is no population census, seldom any mintage figures, and often they are disgarded as having no real collectable value. It is almost impossible to predict how many better type specimens may or may not exist ...

                        My advice to any would be token collectors is take what you can get when the opportunity comes along because you may not get another chance anytime soon (if ever).

                        Steve van Niekerk

                        PS I am still looking to acquire a type 2 Durban Club token should anyone care to list another ?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Not talking about the token but Kebs crown.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Thanks! Had a feeling that was the case...
                            I know not what World War 3 will be fought with, but World War 4 will be fought with sticks & stones - Albert Einstein.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by ndoa18 View Post
                              It is clear that South African token coins are coming into their own.

                              I have watched the ebb and flow on prices of these tokens for some years now but the sale this week of a holed Durban Club 6d reflects, in my view, the true numismatist.

                              See: Tokens - ## EXTREMELY RARE 1860 DURBAN CLUB 6D TOKEN ## was sold for R2,775.00 on 7 Jun at 21:31 by Gecko Coins in Port Elizabeth

                              The coin is very worn on one side exasserbating its inherent flaws.

                              What it has going for it is that there are less than 30 pieces of each of the three Durban Club varieties remaining in existence.

                              What makes this sale so special is that if it was a regular holed union SA piece there is no way, in proportion to the prices paid for unholed pieces, it would have sold for the price it did. What I am saying is that collectors would, for example, pay a fraction of the price on an investment 1931 tickey compared to a holed, ex-jewellery, cleaned etc... piece!

                              There is something very special about the history and the collectors of tokens - they are, as I intimated above, true numismatists. The history resides in the coin - feel its history when you hold it in your hand! Then, in my view, you will understand the passion of so many numismatists who have gone before!

                              My good friend Milner Snell is currently working on limited edition books on the history of trading stores in East Griqualand... just owning a coin is not good enough for him. I take my hat off to Milner and look forward to seeing the books!

                              Kind regards


                              Scott Balson
                              I found an 1880 East London municipality token today. Also has a hole. Anyone know what it is worth?
                              We dont seem to be able to browse images in order to upload a photo. Must I type the whole url number into this box??
                              VIEW MY ITEMS!

                              Comment

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