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  • 1893 Halfcrown Forgery from China on ebay- Beware !!!!

    Hello all,

    Please be careful of attractive 1893 Halfcrowns advertised on ebay by Chinese sellers see item numbers 250677542920 (currently running), 286543582831 (ended $405- eight bids), Another member of Bob sent me an email reporting this as well.

    The way to spot the forgery is in the shape of the 3 in the date, the upper portion has a sharp corner as oposed to the genuine coin that has an equal top and lower component.It may be an 1897 Halfcrown that has been modified.

    Another more subtle point I noticed was that the beard on the cheek ends in an abnormally sharply curved line from above down as if Paul Kruger has shaved that part.

    Please see pics below.

    Condolences to the poor sucker who fell for it.

    From my experience in the past, ebay doesnt have the structures in place to stop these forgeries from being sold so the seller will not be punished. Bid or buy is far superior in this regard.

    Hats off to you guys Cuan!!!!

    Georg

    Attached Files
    Last edited by geejay50; 04-08-10, 22:03.

  • #2
    Thanks for that handy bit of info. Personally I will not buy anything of value from a China based seller, these folks are master craftsmen and their reputation for producing high quality fakes precedes them.
    Visit my hive!

    Comment


    • #3
      Hi Bumblebee,

      Point taken, the particular seller has 8 ratings and is selling non SA coins for the rest. So few ratings would also make one suspicious.

      The sellers from Hong Kong are in my experience excellent and dont take chances. Other sellers from the mainland with many ratings to defend are also fine. We must learn to pick up the forgeries before we bid.

      I have seen a well known forged 1892 SS Crown offered for sale from the mainland as a copy and with an F stamped on the Obverse like Eli Levine used to do.

      There were some Z pond forgeries of 1894 and 1897 ZAR Ponden put on sale from a single seller in Greece. They were unc coins and many fell into the trap.

      I was sold an 1897 Pond from a certain seller in the UK recently that turned into a fake. Even sending him literaure did not get my money back. The delays involved did not even get me to negative rate him. Paypal did not rule in my favour in the dispute that I filed.

      Crooks are everywhere.

      Georg

      Comment


      • #4
        On that note, sellers also need to be on the lookout for buyers that use fake Proof of Payments. I was chatting with a good friend yesterday who almost fell into this trap. It appears that this buyer placed bids on one hell of a lot of items with no intention to pay just to see who would send the items in good faith or who he could con with a fake PoP. This buyer even phones you and has a lengthy chat about collecting coins just to get you more comfortable with him.

        So, it appears that we have crooks on both sides.

        Reminds me of a story I once heard of the car thief getting hi-jacked.
        Visit my hive!

        Comment


        • #5
          Hi Georg. I spotted the coin and noticed from the abbreviation seller name and ratings that the second highest bidder was known to me A quick phone call to him saved him a lot of money. "just hope he remembers when I make him an offer on his Farthing he is holding at the moment..lol..

          a Few weeks ago As I got to my office at 5:00am in the morning there was also a 1895 Half Crown listed in similar condition. I quickly asked the seller if he would guarantee the item as genuine, closed the page and when I returned the item was deleted.

          Georg, By the way you can get your credit card issuer to reverse the transaction, just provide them with proof. I know, have been there before as well.
          Light travels faster than sound. That's why some people appear bright until you hear them speak!

          Click to view any items I may have on auction

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          • #6
            You would think that would be it. But I recieved an email fronm the seller that was more shocking than the fake coin

            If BOB would allow me here is his email to me

            ""Hi
            please see the attachment ,i will put the raw coin into PCGS box
            the price is $200 per coin ,including shipping
            i accept paypal


            thanks""

            and when I asked him if he was legite and if he was out to sell fakes and take peoples money he answered

            "Hi
            don't worry ,we can deal with paypal ,and give you ship checking number ,i do busniess many years ,i have many buyer ,i wont cheat you 200 dollar ,i would like to do busniess with you for a long time
            the grade you can tell me what would you like ,then i will make the pcgs label ,after i complete i can send you the photo ,after you see the photo then pay me money ,it's ok?



            best wishes

            thanks"

            You know how scary it is when he askes you what grade you want. Hell guys be very carefull.

            He send me a photo of a graded 1893 Halfcrown in a PCGS holder and asked me to pick a grade.

            BE VERY CAREFULL!!!!!!!
            People shouldn't wear purple , Barney gets upset.
            VIEW MY ITEMS!

            Comment


            • #7
              Hi All

              The most scary part is:

              YOU CAN ORDER COINS - WHAT EVER YOU WANT AND IN WHAT EVER AMOUNT!!!

              A simple internet search in the RIGHT places and you have a supplier for coins, NGC holders, PCGS holders and you can specify the grade!

              Coins are being sent in the markets with DETAILS grades, they make a fake and give it eg: AU55 DETAILS - so much easier to deceive!! I have seen a photo from a coin operation with a box full of slabbed coins - every single one AU55 DETAILS.

              Scary Stuff, but it seems to impact the US market the most, thankfully.

              Cheers

              Comment


              • #8
                I was so tempted to bid on this coin but it was the poor ratings the kept me at bay. Phew!!!! Thanks Georg for that astute observation. Amatures like me really rely on experience like yours.
                “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”

                VIEW MY ITEMS!

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                • #9
                  Thats why I always verify serial numbers of graded coins on the NGC site. It's a very quick process. If the seller does not want to supply you the serial no. be suspicious.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Has someone reported this to Ebay???
                    VIEW MY ITEMS!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      The good news for NGC graded coins is that they now photograph all their coins. If you buy a coin you can verify it by checking on their site if that is indeed their coin.

                      PCGS does not photograph. Just checking the serial number wont help as they are clever and will use a coin that has the same serial number and the same grade and year. You might think you are safe, but if you dont know what it looks like you could loose allot of money

                      Be
                      Ever
                      Watchfull
                      Auctions
                      Regarding
                      Ebay
                      People shouldn't wear purple , Barney gets upset.
                      VIEW MY ITEMS!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Hi!
                        Now here is something to think about: although it is wonderful to have this forged coin brought to our attention, it is maybe not too clever of us to be pointing out why this coin is a forgery. I have another collecting interest where forgeries/fakes are a real problem. Collectors in this category specifically will not discuss how the forgery/fake differs from the genuine article because the manufacturers of such forgeries/fakes will deliberately display an article on their forum, query whether it is the "real thing" and thereafter rectify any flaws in the next generation of these articles based on the feed-back received.
                        Soon, the fakes are not discernible from the genuine product.
                        We might all be doing ourselves a favour if we also deliberately refrain from pointing out mistakes these forgers have made on our coins.
                        Mike Klee

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Sunlight or secrets?

                          Mike makes a really interesting point - is it best to disseminate information about fakes (sunlight being the best disinfectant etc) or do we guard the information?

                          My personal view is that you broadcast the information as widely as possible. Yeah, the forgers learn from it and get smarter, but it means that they have to scrap a hell of a lot of expensive product every time a new "proving point" is identified.

                          If you jealously guard the information you end up with a tiny elite of collectors and dealers in possession of really important information that should be available to... well, everybody. I guess I don't like elites - pastimes like coin collecting should be democratised, and that is one of the wonderful things about this forum, that anybody can get a login and communicate with some of the most knowledgeable coin/token specialists in the world.

                          And if the forgeries end up indistinguishable from the genuine article? Well, there's always something that gives away a forgery - that's how we know it's not genuine! But do we want that information to be generally available or in the possession of a small number of people in the industry/hobby...?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Is there a technological answer?

                            Hi Deon, Mike

                            Isn't the common denominator the origin of the coin being sold - ie China.

                            Wouldn't a good starting point be to ban any Chinese based seller from selling coins on BoB? For G-o-d's sake how would a Chinese seller get hold of a rare S African coin in the first place?

                            Secondly, with today's technology is there not some sort of simple scanning process where rare coins can be authenticated by simply checking their metal make up. I have absolutely no doubt that these forgeries would have a minimal amount of silver - and we know what it should be. We also know the unique mix of silver with other alloys (from authentic masters) which I think would be almost impossible for these fraudsters to replicate. This secondary process, together with evidence of doctoring the real deal, could be used to verify extremely rare and valuable coins. (I would not include a Mandela VF25 in this category regardless of what sellers claim!)

                            For example, in the pest control business (an apt comparison!), they now have scanners that measure moisture in the walls - and from that they can "see" and digitally record white ant infestations without even touching the wall.

                            Kind regards

                            Scott Balson
                            Last edited by ndoa18; 08-08-10, 01:10.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Hi!
                              The Chinese buy genuine graded South African rarities in the same way that we do, then copy them. I have a large collection of South African patterns - many slabbed, many unslabbed - which have been bought from all the well-known auction houses, and I really thought that the remaining patterns would become less available - with a corresponding increase in prices.
                              Well......all I have seen has been a continual flow of patterns into the marketplace, with many of these offerings coming from China. I have absolutely no doubt that many of these "slabbed" patterns are fake.
                              Also, the Chinese sell fakes not just in China but, I believe, certainly in many other South East Asian countries...and maybe even Europe and the USA?
                              Mike Klee

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