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  • help in clearing up a grading issue

    I recently received an NGC graded coin and was surprised at the coin vs the grade. I don't want to say at this stage what the grade is, but I have verified the coin on NGC's site and even saw the picture stored there.

    I know there are a lot of experts out there - what class grade do you think belong to this coin - nothing specific required - a plain VF, XF, AU, MS or PF will do.

    ...and I know that the picture is not the best quality, but hope that it will show enough detail.

    See the attachment.(ADDED THE 2ND ATTACHMENT)
    Attached Files
    Last edited by eZethu Coins; 24-03-10, 20:45.

    Renaldo


    View my auctions in the Coins & Notes section

  • #2
    Hi
    It is difficult to detimine a grade as the obverse are not present.
    The obverse accounts up to 60% of the grade.

    Regards SCGS SUPPORT

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by SA Coin Grading View Post
      Hi
      It is difficult to detimine a grade as the obverse are not present.
      The obverse accounts up to 60% of the grade.

      Regards SCGS SUPPORT
      Uploaded now

      Renaldo


      View my auctions in the Coins & Notes section

      Comment


      • #4
        1) the coin should not have graded. RN 6 o clock OBV

        2) on details of the coin:
        The grade would have been XF-AU

        very little wear on the coin itself couple of nicks, but your picture are quite enlarged.

        places to look for wear..

        the buck, eyes & head, the dome above the door's lintels

        The left tower is also dubblestruck or a die break
        But nice detail, obv lion also about complete

        My bet would be XF45 - AU-50 (AU 1st choice)

        Note: Only 30-40% of Inauguration coins grade.. DONT waste your money in sending then for grading.
        Rim nicks like above the major cause of rejection.

        Regards SACGS SUPPORT

        NOTE the picture is quite enlarge, so it show minor detail as severe.

        Comment


        • #5
          By NGC grading standards it would be XF45, by South African grading standards, it should be a good VF/VF+.
          Obverse VF and Reverse VF+.

          If it was my coin, I would spend it




          Cheers
          Last edited by Coinoisseur; 24-03-10, 23:06.
          Anthony G
          The measure of a numismatist is not how much he profits from the hobby,
          but how much the hobby profits from him.

          Comment


          • #6
            I'm no expert, but my best guess would be AU, low 50's
            Visit my hive!

            Comment


            • #7
              Without seeing the original coin under magnification I would never even suggest a grading.

              I was recently caught on BoB with a coin which had been polished beyond belief and should have been noted as such in the listing - but wasn't.

              The detailed scan of the coin in the BoB listing never reflected that important blemish.

              It all comes back to the integrity of the seller buyers are dealing with. If you can trust the seller then all is good. If you can't beware. For me, once bitten, twice shy.

              Kind regards


              Scott Balson
              Last edited by ndoa18; 25-03-10, 08:39.

              Comment


              • #8
                Grading: I wanted to write my thoughts for awhile on this sticky subject and have decided now is the time - what the heck!

                My thoughts and my opinions - I could very well be wrong but my thoughts anyway.

                There seems to be very distinct types of grading,market related,technical,historical grading. Market grading does seem to be the most popular of the two. Take for example ZAR coins - I think seem to be more market graded than technical. My reasoning being: NGC and PCGS and other grading companies do not seem to take into account certain oddities related to ZAR coins, example weak strikes, overused dies etc etc. How many of us actually now why a series of coins is weakly struck - to maximize the life of the dies/or dies are poked. When grading historically correctly a weakly stuck coin can be UNC even though it has no luster and poor details. For example 1896 shillings - a dime a dozen but find a good one graded - you will not. Weak used dies. . NGC and PCGS apply this to certain US series coins which are weakly struck, and grade them accordingly, unfortunately this will never be applied to SA coins. $20 CC gold coin.

                Consensus grading I understand is used by the NGC (cannot comment on PCGS because I dont know) can be pretty poor - 1898 pennys for example. I have an MS62 and MS64 - there is no way on planet earth the 64 is better. It seems very common is the States to take it out the slab and send it back and get a higher grad.FACT - I have done it. Insofar is that "cleaned" coins come back graded. I have read many stories regarding reslabbing - scary reading.

                I am dead certain certain grades will never be exceeded in ZAR and Union due to market grading even though these coins exist.

                I do understand that coin grading is subjective BUT should historical issues not be taken into account when grading? That is my question?

                Good one I picked up on the net: THERE ARE ONLY TWO GRADES,NEW AND USED, THE SHELDON SCALE IS THERE TO MAKE US FEEL BETTER THAN USED CAR DEALERS.

                And: If the coin looks bad in the slab it is.
                Cheers.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by BELLCOIN View Post
                  Grading: I wanted to write my thoughts for awhile on this sticky subject and have decided now is the time - what the heck!

                  My thoughts and my opinions - I could very well be wrong but my thoughts anyway.

                  There seems to be very distinct types of grading,market related,technical,historical grading. Market grading does seem to be the most popular of the two. Take for example ZAR coins - I think seem to be more market graded than technical. My reasoning being: NGC and PCGS and other grading companies do not seem to take into account certain oddities related to ZAR coins, example weak strikes, overused dies etc etc. How many of us actually now why a series of coins is weakly struck - to maximize the life of the dies/or dies are poked. When grading historically correctly a weakly stuck coin can be UNC even though it has no luster and poor details. For example 1896 shillings - a dime a dozen but find a good one graded - you will not.

                  I am dead certain certain grades will never be exceeded in ZAR and Union due to market grading even though these coins exist.

                  I do understand that coin grading is subjective BUT should historical issues not be taken into account when grading? That is my question?

                  Good one I picked up on the net: THERE ARE ONLY TWO GRADES,NEW AND USED, THE SHELDON SCALE IS THERE TO MAKE US FEEL BETTER THAN USED CAR DEALERS.

                  Cheers.
                  Hi
                  We do take historical facts into account when grading.
                  Very much so.

                  Shocking fact also that 30% of graded ZAR CROWNS are re strikes or counterfeit,
                  good ones, but still..
                  Same size, different weight, and reeding, and a mark just before oom Paul's ear.

                  regards SACGS SUPPORT

                  ** Note: the Inauguration coin above would not have graded with us as stated.
                  But the A/U designation is leniency as for NGC what would have been to be expected.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I can't wait for the bunny to be pulled from the hat :)
                    Visit my hive!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      So what did they grade it?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by craigcar View Post
                        So what did they grade it?
                        OK - so here goes - the coin graded as MS62. I am not an expert (which I have stated many times), but I would have thought XF or no-grade. I don't think the marks on the coin are bag marks and it has a definite rim nick. The marks are visible with the naked eye.

                        So we live and learn.

                        I really appreciate all the opinions and advice received (also via PMs). Any one that wants to buy it from me - now is your opportunity :D
                        Attached Files

                        Renaldo


                        View my auctions in the Coins & Notes section

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by eZethu Coins View Post
                          OK - so here goes - the coin graded as MS62. I am not an expert (which I have stated many times), but I would have thought XF or no-grade. I don't think the marks on the coin are bag marks and it has a definite rim nick. The marks are visible with the naked eye.

                          So we live and learn.

                          I really appreciate all the opinions and advice received (also via PMs). Any one that wants to buy it from me - now is your opportunity :D
                          I will give you R5 for it ;)
                          Visit my hive!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            You know how it works - if I get no higher bids, she is yours. BTW - did I mention my new shipping costs? :)

                            Renaldo


                            View my auctions in the Coins & Notes section

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              What a BIG MISTAKE NGC !!! LOL !!!
                              I have allways been of the opinion that PCGS is a better grading company than NGC (although they have had their share of slipups).I think they are more strick with their grading in general.
                              Now back to our local company,SA Coin Grading.I did a small experiment by comparing 10 x Mandela 90th Birthday coins graded by NGC as MS67 and 10x graded by SACGS also MS67.Even with the naked eye I can see contact marks in the fields of the NGC coins.The SACGS coins in my opinion were worthy of their MS67 grades and totally in a different class!
                              Now I ask myself...are our local collectors being critical of SACGS because they know their grading standards is more strick and thorough than NGC ? !!
                              Keep up the good work SA Coin Grading Services !!!
                              Again,anybody can make a mistake.But something like this NO GRADE should have not slipped through( as MS62 !!)...and I am not even going into NGC grading coins that have been dipped(same as cleaning to me).

                              Comment

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