Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • DESCRIPTION OF LOTS FOR AUCTION

    It has come to my attention, more in the recent weeks, the licence that some dealers and sellers of stamps use to attract buyers and prey on their greed.

    The use of words such as scarce,rarely seen,rare,never seen before have been abused to the point where I think the selling fraternity need to step back and think of words such as ethics,honesty,integrity. Lots have been equated directly with the catalogue value and the condition is totally missed. Philatelic items with horrible cancellations, washed colours, tonning and any number of other faults are conveniently overlooked and the buyer is then tempted to spend to much thinking he/she is getting a bargain.

    This is especially true of new collectors and those who dont have the necessary knowledge who are taken advantage of. These are the philatelists of the future that are being milked and will be left with a very sour taste in their mouths when the deception is discovered.

    I think it is time that sellers sit up and take notice of how they abuse the english language as do estate agents when selling a house. This is not true of the bulk of sellers who are most pleasant and mostly eager to assist if you are not happy with a purchase. The dealers I am directing this at know exactly who they are. [/i]

  • #2
    Hello Seahorsefanatic

    I fully agree with you. Please look at the following item. I specifically listed this item to try and educate some buyers. The item is offered at 97% below catalogue value or rather at 3% of catalogue value. And I am offering FREE shipment via courier! Because it has been correctly described, there had been no takers. Yet, if I were to put this item up on the Wednesday Crazy Auction (not stating any faults), it would fetch many, many hundreds of Rands. Believe me, I know it would.


    http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/jsp/item/I...adeId=10164646

    On the other hand, if this specific stamp was in superb condition, it would have been scarce! I do not believe that there would have been much difference in the price as far as the Wednesday Crazy Auction is concerned.

    On the other hand, very often the matter of perforation, cancellation and centering is subjective. I think that a good quality SCAN is sufficient to cover these three areas.

    Regards

    Jacques
    Philately starts where the catalogue stops.
    Items I have for sale.

    Comment


    • #3
      DESCRIPTION OF LOTS FOR AUCTION.

      Thanks Jacques for your reply - what I can add to this bone of contention are dealers who consistently tell you about all the good points and hide behind the scans to cover the faults. If you are going to say how good the stamp is and the colour, perfs and cancellation are then also give the bad points to. This can be seen on a number of items/collections on yesterday's crazy wednesday auction. So the description is very subtle in execution to stay on the right side of BoB but his does nothing for the hobby.

      Why is a watchdog not developed by BoB to warn these so called psuedo dealers and thereafter kick them out. Here we are not dealing with a second hand toaster but an investment item that collectors want to see appreciate in the years to come

      Comment


      • #4
        Wednesday R1 crazy auction is turning into a joke

        Wednesday R1 crazy auction is turning into a joke

        I have to agree with seahorsefanatic and say that the wednesday auction is turning into a joke. I am considering cutting down my wednesday listings because i cannot compete with the amount of xxxx that is now being listed. I have brought up this issue before in another post and no one has replied. I think BoB needs to close off the Wednesday listings earlier so that delaers can't come in on a wednesday morning and shove 100+ items. I went on on Tuesday and their was +200 items, by wednesday that number had jumped to 319, with the majority coming from 1 dealer and most of it was bad stuff sold at extremely high CV's. My 23 listings, which i paid quite a sum for to try and list on the 1st page was suddenly lost and i had clients phoning, asking why had i taken off some of the items.(yes I know I am bitching). but even as a buyer, i don;t like the look of the wednesday sales anymore. I remember when I first started buying, (competing against seahorsefanatic and so on) it used to be fun, their was so much goods stuff, very little xxxx. i used to really enjoy trying to get items. Now days, if i have to troll through 7 pages to find some items of value, i am not interested. All this stuff that is being sold off as high value and you can see a mile away that it is charity box stuff. I mean, really, even BoB should be concerned about the long term effects of this. Good sellers are going to stop selling, because it is not worth it, and all the potential long term buyers, will stop buying, because they feel that all dealers are ripping them off. And this raises another issue, how will a buyer know what is genuinly an investment piece that he/she should pay handsomly for, and xxxx that he/she should only pay r1 for.

        Mayve BoB can help with this, but i agree, we need some sort of quality control, most buyers believe that the stamps they are buying is going to appreciate in time, and so it should, it it is quality. This is a long term plan, not the short sighted let's make a quick buck and forget about tomorrow plan. We need BoB's buy in. I feel, as do others, a sort of committee needs to be set up, and I know that we have volunteers who will help with this. to manage the items being put on, not saying that they should maange every one, but when a bad item is put up and is offered as a good high investment piece, a committee could put a stop to it, this way, it is not BoB saying to every person, "show us the proof", and their will be no hdden agendas, because a committee, and not 1 person will be responsible for making that descision. It is extremely difficult for BoB to manage the stamps on their own, this is thousand of small items, they should feel free to use the expertise that comes with some of the dealers. Some with over 20 years of experience. Maybe BoB could reply to this, sit down with some of the dealers and come up with a plan.

        I hope that this time, these discussions will lead to more people responding, this is not a personal attack, but come on, let's do something before it is too late. Recently a coin delaer aksed me how stamps works, as a coin dealer, if a coin is cataklogued at R10 000, he would sell it for close to that amount and sometimes even more. Yet with stamps, it can be catalogued at R10 000 and only sell for a hundred. I had to explain to him, the concept of mssing perfs, bad cancellations and so on. but then again, what is the difference between a good stamp and a bad one, when buyers are so used to paying the same price for both... (something to think about).
        Happy bidding and may the Lord's of philately smile down on you as you find that perfect stamp you have been searching for.

        Comment


        • #5
          Hello David

          I am also guilty to a large extent. As a dealer and also the owner of a specific stamp, it is natural to go on a spree regarding the good points of the stamp. We want to sell our stamps! But we have to look at the long term scenario. In organised philately, the average age of the collector must me 60+. As far as BidorBuy is concerned, I am sure the average collector is a lot less, perhaps as “low” as 40? Should thing go according to plan, I hope to be in the trade for another twenty years. We have to make sure that we will have enough trusting and knowledgeable collectors (CLIENTS to be blunt).

          I find it especially annoying when sellers are putting up imperfs, for example, Cape Triangles or Penny Blacks and then do NOT state whether they are cut in or not. It is amazing how the quality of the scan or photo is directly proportional to the quality of the stamp’s margins.

          Remember the fun we had at the meetings regarding some descriptions: Soiled, torn, rusted, bad cancellation, but otherwise fine! Or parcel cancellation, diagonal tear and a couple of perfs missing – not detracting from overall appearance!

          Regarding a Watchdog, a brilliant idea that would suit me 100%. But I do not think that it would be possible. I do hope that somebody would prove me wrong. Could you imagine: only “Watchdog Approved Stamp Dealers” allowed to list on Wednesday Crazy Auctions?!

          Should we perhaps have a separate topic regarding the age of collectors or dealers on BidorBuy? I think it would make for very interesting statistics. Obviously we will have to excuse the ladies from this exercise.

          Regards

          Jacques
          Philately starts where the catalogue stops.
          Items I have for sale.

          Comment


          • #6
            Hello Savo

            I have posted out of order, only seeing your post after I have replied to the Seahorse.

            I do note what you are saying: “I think bidorbuy needs to close off the Wednesday listings earlier so that dealers can't come in on a Wednesday morning and shove 100+ items”.

            But would that help, whatever the cut-off, the same dealers will still flood the auction?

            I think that we are on a very thin line. I would have loved to suggest that there should be a minimum listing fee (say R10-00) for the Wednesday Crazy Auctions in order to cut down on the cheaper listings. But, we also need the smaller dealer and the collector with the smaller budget. The hobby is about enjoyment. I very passionately believe (we have been through this before) that it is all about stamps being incorrectly described. 10 items on a stockcard is not a collection, a Highly Catalogued item with a parcel cancellation is very seldom a scarce item, a collection with 100’s of cheap stamps cannot possibly be highly catalogued (the SACC and Gibbons state that the values for cheap items constitute a handling charge, rather than a true value), etc, etc.

            Regarding your and the Seahorse’s idea about some kind of watchdog, I think it is brilliant! What is the way forward?

            I have already cut down my listings on the Wednesday Auctions by 70%. Why spend good money listing a good stamp (which I can sell anyway in the “formal” trade), only to have it disappear amongst 100’s of substandard listings?

            Regards

            Jacques
            Philately starts where the catalogue stops.
            Items I have for sale.

            Comment


            • #7
              Hi all.

              Once again, I feel that the peanut gallery should add there five cents worth.

              Like I've mentioned before, I am an amateur collector, but each and every day I learn something new about stamps. I inherited a collection when I was fifteen years old, and for the past 30 years the collection has been left, untouched, in shoe boxes. I have recently closed a business which has left me with very little to do, other than play golf and get my stamp collection in order.

              I have recently started selling stamps on BoB, not for financial gain, but merely as a portal to move duplication and, with the proceeds, buy stamps that I need. I refrain from using terminology like perforations, watermarks etc. or for that matter mentioning catalogue values, or the words rare and scarce. I offer a full, money back guarantee, should a buyers not be satisied with what they receive. The reason for this is quite simple. I am an amateur, I cannot, for love or money, give a description that a collector, with 20 years experience, could give. Never.

              Now my point is this. What is too stop an amateur, like myself, from selling on BoB. I certainly don't think that BoB was actually designed with professional sellers in mind. I think that BoB is actually more like the classified section of your newspaper, or, believe it or not, like a public auction. The pro sellers have found that they can get a lot more exposure of their products by advertising on an online auction, and all this at a fraction of the price of normal advertising. Now why take it out on us?

              If I place my Wednesday auction two minutes (never done this before) before the auction opens, so what? I pay exactly the same fees as everybody else. If BoB allows me to post my advert then, then it is obviously allowed.

              This is an auction site, and, like most auctions, there will always be sellers that take chances. This is most unfortunate, but a fact of life. I agree that the buyers need to be protected from dodgy sellers, but I cannot see how this can be done. BoB could not possibly scrutinize every auction that is placed on their site. The buyer has every right to ask questions about the product, should he / she not be completely satisfied with the description provided. Unfortunately, when it comes to bidding, most punters become like gamblers and lose control of their sense of justification. This is exactly what the dicey seller is looking for. This is where the words like rare, scarce, seldom seen on BoB, actually take their toll.

              I am in no way trying to point fingers at anyone on this website, but there will always be a sucker out there, and, unfortunately, their will always be a seller willing to sell to him. I know that collecting stamps is a very specialised hobby, and false advertising gets up everyones nose, but let's face reality, it's going to happen.

              Remember, once bitten, twice shy. Keep your side of the bargain, keep your ratings high, and hey presto, you will attract repeat business. Con artists don't get repeat business.

              Regards
              Rusty500

              Comment


              • #8
                DESCRIPTION OF LOTS FOR AUCTION

                Whilst I agree with the points made to my posting it is off the point of what I have a problem with and thats the flagrant misuse of the English language to someones financial benefit - guess who - the seller !!!!!

                If a watchdog was instituted it could be brought into action only when complaints are received ( and I am fully prepared to go any number of rounds with the dealers that I have a problem with ) The auction is a vehicle that should be open to all to dispose of unwanted items irrespective of value. We also need to include those cheaper items for those of us with small budjets.

                The flagrant use of large cataloge values inflated by the exchange rate to boost a collection's chances of been sold is embarasing - such as this collection is catalogued at R25,000 knowing that the item is starting at R1.

                As in stamps that are rare, would'nt it be great if the casual abuse by sellers was rare. Now that should be collectable and bankable.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Hello Rusty

                  What a life (very little to do, other than play golf and get my stamp collection in order). I will forsake the golf, if I could simply get my stamps in order.

                  I have made it very clear that the issue is not about the smaller / amateur seller. It is about incorrect descriptions.

                  I know of many, many strong buyers who simply ignore BidorBuy because they have to scroll through endless pages of junk lots in order to find a decent item. For the stamp site to become stronger, we need good items. Good sellers will attract good buyers, which will attract better sellers, etc. A circle is endless. Please note that I am not referring to cheap versus expensive. I am referring to quality items versus stamps that belong in the dustbin because they are damaged! Yet some sellers unashamedly offer them for sale! With bad descriptions and even worse photos! You are correct, according to the rules of BidorBuy they have the right to do so.

                  But as a person whose bread and butter depend on the stamp market, I find this unacceptable. The stamp market should not be there for a couple of unscrupulous traders to devour.

                  I very sincerely believe that there is a place for everyone and that the dealer selling R1000-00 items does not have any more rights than the dealer selling R2-00 items. A lot of the very cheap items are almost impossible to find in the formal trade! The sellers selling the cheap items (correctly described) do a tremendous job and should be commended. I trust that Fanie3 will forgive me for using his name without permission, but he is a case in point. An ethical and hardworking seller with the highest standards concentrating on the cheaper items.

                  You are an exception as well. Not making claims that are simply not true, scanning the items instead of using bad photos, providing a money-back-guarantee, etc. Don’t you think that your items might have fetched better prices if the unscrupulous sellers were simply not on the site?

                  You state: “Remember, once bitten, twice shy. Keep your side of the bargain, keep your ratings high, and hey presto, you will attract repeat business. Con artists don't get repeat business”.

                  I hope you are right regarding your statement on the con artists!

                  Thanks and regards

                  Jacques
                  Philately starts where the catalogue stops.
                  Items I have for sale.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    It is extremely disappointing, and particulary for those who know me, that someone would choose not only this forum to attack me, but poses insulting quesions in the question and answer forum.

                    I chose to ignore it as I have nothing to hide. A fanatic's name has been given to me on a number of occasions of whom I should be aware of in their attempt to undermine and discredit me at every possible opportunity. I now understand why I am not only being insulted but also attacked with innuendo to futher undermine my integrity for those buyers who do support me.

                    I have never claimed to know it all and welcome constructive criticism but I WILL NOT stand for insults false accusations and innuendo.

                    I do not wish to have any altercation, especially publicly, but I am willing to come out fighting, if it is a fight you want, however I refuse to use this forum to debate whatever needs to be said further.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Hello Angela

                      I am a bit confused here.

                      I did not, or rather do not, see anybody posting on this topic attacking you or trying to undermine you.

                      We need your input!

                      Regards

                      Jacques
                      Philately starts where the catalogue stops.
                      Items I have for sale.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        DESCRIPTION OF LOTS FOR AUCTION.

                        I was rather amused by the response of one of the so called dealers who took this personally - guilty concience ? My broadside was directed at a numbers of dealers over their choice of wording. Strangely, eveyone I've spoken to agrees with me.... fancy that !!!!

                        This is firstly, a forum for the discussion of topics relevant to our hobby and the place to air views whatever they may be. I am glad it has raised a sore point with a number of people....seems as if I am on the right trail here.

                        I welcome comment by other parties and would love to hear their views.

                        This fanatic will not be intimidated with the threatening posture of those who feel exposed.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Hi Seahorse,

                          Yes the forum is a place of public discussion and possibly even a place to air your point of view. I certainly don't think it is a place to slander and critisize your competition. All you are achieving by doing this is making your opposition more determined. The general buyers on BoB don't read the forums, so the effect on them is nil.

                          I suggest that if you have a problem with a sellers ad that you follow the correct procedure and report the error to BoB or ask the seller a question before putting your foot in your mouth.

                          I am not having a go at you, as I would like to see accurate auctions on BoB as much as anybody else, but sticks and stones isn't going to get the job done.

                          I thought stamp collectors where a gentle bunch of people. Have a look at the Gemstone forum if you want to see handbags at 10 paces. Those guys are fanatical, and yet they still seem to be stuck in exactly the same they where three months ago.

                          Regards

                          Rusty500

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            DESCRIPTION OF LOTS FOR AUCTION

                            Hi Rusty500

                            I read your note and disagree with you totally. If you read my original posting I directed it at no particular dealer at any time. I mentioned no dealer name. You are trying to twist this into a personal thing. Big mistake. This problem involves many lots which are described as rare, never seen before, etc. Most of the items on Crazy wednesday can hardly be described as such. You are therefore happy with this situation ?

                            I am old enough to know the proceedure to follow. We all know that BoB does not have the manpower to start an ethics comittee or the like. I am not a dealer but a collector therefore these sellers are not competition to me.

                            Many collectors are now enjoying the forum and may it grow from strength to strenth as these issues need to be brought out into the open. By keeping quiet you are allowing the transgressor to get away with it.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Hi Seahorse.

                              Points to ponder:

                              1) Why don't you mention the sellers name? If, as you say, many buyers are reading the forum, would it not be better if you mention the sellers name, so that the rest of the people who are trying to create a honest and fair enviroment are not combed with the same comb. Or, if you have an issue with a seller, would it not be better to avoid their auctions.

                              2) Why would I want to twist this into a "personal thing"? I have no idea who you are or who the person is that you are having a go at. This is a forum and I am entitled to my own point of view. We are all submitting a point of view are we not?

                              3) BIG MISTAKE? Why, for airing a point of view? Or do you now intend putting me on your "hit list".

                              4) If you go to the Gemstone forum, you will see that the Buyers and Sellers, along with Bob, have formed an ethics commitee to sort out their problems (false advertising, incorrect descriptions etc) which is run by the members, with an arbitrator who oversees the whole forum. Most of the sellers are following the rules and the guidelines, but nothing is happening to the sellers that haven't conformed. They are actually selling more now than they were, because their ads look so much better than the competions. Not only does BoB not have the resources to monitor a commitee like this, the members are just as toothless.

                              Finally, I am in no ways against a BoB that is fair for Buyer and Seller alike. I would also like to see dishonest sellers (and buyers) being punished. Maybe we should show dodgy adverts here in the forum for all to see. Bitching and moaning won't help, and aggressive attacks on the people who take part in the forum will help even less.

                              Regards
                              Rusty500


                              4)

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X