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  • Motlanthe

    Hello all

    I'm back again (was disconnected for about 2 months or so). Can anyone tell me anything about this new President Motlanthe stamp. Is it being retracted never to be released or will it be released at a later time. Does anyone know. I have been given an offer of R1500 for a sheet and I really don't want to burn my fingers because this is quite a lot of money for me.

    Thanks
    Mark (mwgielink)

  • #2
    Hi

    I heard that it was going to be retracted. My personal opinion is that if that was the case it would have been done already. Who knows?

    Regards
    Gabriel1
    Items I have for sale.

    Comment


    • #3
      Hello all

      I am no expert on new issues, but just my opinion.

      I have seen this issue being compared to the Bible Stamp, right here on BidorBuy. A very dangerous comparison.

      The stamp (already printed and already or rather still with the post offices) could be released at any day. At R20-50 per sheetlet.

      Let us not even talk about possible bribery / corruption should the stamp in fact be withdrawn.

      Too many people have too many connections with too many people…

      Not being a gambling man, I will place a bet that many people are going to lose money. I know that some traders have already made handsome returns

      The short term future is rosy. The long term view might not be that brilliant.

      The Bible stamp is more than 20 years old. I do not see the Presidential Issue maintaining its value over the next 5 years.

      Thanks to BidorBuy Forum for allowing me to give a very one-sided opinion.

      Regards

      Jacques
      Philately starts where the catalogue stops.
      Items I have for sale.

      Comment


      • #4
        I have spoken my local Post Office Manager who seems to be even more in the dark than us. He has many sheets of the stamps in stock and is of the opinion that they will soon be given the go ahead to start selling them. He is, however, not prepared to give up twenty-five years of service by selling them before the actual release. He is completely amazed that some of these are already being sold on BoB.

        Regards
        Chris

        Comment


        • #5
          Hi all,
          The new President does not appear to be liked in general by the ANC, therefore I dont think the stamps will be issued as this would give him extra publicity.....and could detract from Zuma. Very few people know about the new stamps except Bobbers. Also if they were going to be issued they would have been issued on the planned issue date.

          With government departments who knows what will happen, the SAM & the PB are both a shambles.

          I think some post office staff will be bribed to sell some of the stamps.

          Seemingly the bar code has been blocked at the PO Head Office for these stamps.

          However that being said I did buy a sheet just in case!

          For the buyers who bought full sheets at R1000.00+ prices just ask the seller for a 6 month money back guarantee....I am sure you wont get it!!!!

          I must say the stamp business at the moment is getting to feel like the 70s & 80s....good fun and lots of money to be made and lost!!!

          Have a great day.

          D. :D
          My age is but an irrelevant number !
          Items I am selling.

          Comment


          • #6
            Hi Jacques
            Thanks for your one sided opinion.
            Heres mine
            Firstly should bid or buy allow these stamps to be sold?
            Secondly,everyone has been harping on about an ethics committee
            Are these the same people who somehow got hold of these stamps?.Are these the same people buying these stamps?
            Has anyone given a thought to what happens to the clerks who were coerced into selling the sheets?
            As for all this garbage " cancelled on opening of Parliament and first day and one day before first day" as far as I am concerned this is CTO and worth about as much as the tons of rubbish produced by the communist block countries and Ajman etc,ie never saw a post box in its life.
            Whoever takes over the colour catalogue should blacklist the stamp( unless it is released officially of course) and in that case blacklist any material dated before this new date.
            Hope this creates some lively debate
            Regards
            Kenny

            Comment


            • #7
              Hi Kenny

              Are you trying to create a market for "blacklisted" stamps?, these could be worth more than the original stamp if it is issued. I have seen forgeries sell for more than the originals. With the amount of stamps that are already on the market I do not see them even coming close to the Bible stamp. I further think that alot of hype is being created to try and stimulate sales of this issue and this will be short lived.

              Regards
              Gabriel1
              Items I have for sale.

              Comment


              • #8
                Hello all

                Some of these stamps were “legitimately” sold over the counter. Up to last week, my post office was unaware that the stamps were not to be sold. As Alloway put it, the barcode is blocked and that was the only reason why the post office clerk did not sell the stamps to me. So I am sure that not all the stamps were obtained in an immoral or illegal manner.

                Therefor I believe that BidorBuy should allow the listing of these stamps. Contrived FDC's are different, especially in last week's case where was obvious that the date stamp was tampered with (turned back) to such an extent the the year was 2008 and not 2009! We should have pride in our trade. If you want to create a forgery, please create a good one – and give us all a challenge identifying it. Unless of course, the object of the exercise is to provide pure amusement to BidorBuy stamp collectors.

                I agree with Kenny that (should the stamp not be issued) it should be blacklisted. As an unissued stamp it is not valid as postage. Therefor it is not a postage stamp.

                Did any SAPDA members receive any directives from SAPDA / PFSA / SAPO regarding this issue?

                Thanks and regards

                Jacques
                Philately starts where the catalogue stops.
                Items I have for sale.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Hi Jacques,
                  But the stamps were issued over the PO counters, then someone in the PO had a "change of mind", so the stamps sold (up to that time) should therefore be ligitimate! But no way to differenciate.

                  Re the Bible stamps, these I think were stopped by the PO before the issueing date, but some PO's never received the instructions and sold some.

                  Let the debate continue.

                  Who amongst us, if they had bought 50 sheets at face value from the PO,would have sold them at face value to Bobers!!!!

                  David
                  My age is but an irrelevant number !
                  Items I am selling.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Hello David

                    Who amongst us, if they had bought 50 sheets at face value from the PO,would have sold them at face value to Bobers!!!!
                    I am not trying to adopt a Holier Than Though attitude.

                    If I bought any at face, I would have held them back till the dust settled.

                    Can you imagine the repercussions of selling a sheet at R1 800-00 to a loyal client of 15 years? Only for him / her to find out later that his investment crumbled to R20-50! Will she / he ever take your advice again?

                    I see it as a nobody wins situation in the short term. Except for a couple of traders who are out to make a quick buck with no regard for the future of stamp collecting / dealing. In 5 years time they might be part time estate agents again.

                    Point taken on your first paragraph.

                    Regards

                    Jacques
                    Philately starts where the catalogue stops.
                    Items I have for sale.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Hi All
                      Good stuff ,if a little tame
                      I agree with the following,namely that due to the HUGE number of released sheets this cannot become another bible stamp.
                      Furthermore as Jacques states this cannot be considered as a valid stamp for postage,therefore all contrived covers should be taken as exactly that.
                      Come on David of Alloway(my fellow revered Scot from the county of Burns),change of heart is a rather optimistic comment.You cannot in your heart of heart believe that every post office clerk in the country willingly and without just a tad of personal gain sold the stamps?
                      If so my belief in the good of mankind has been restored and with such honesty and integrity,the ANC could do worse than to appoint Carl Niehaus
                      as the next Postmaster General.
                      Kind Regards
                      Kenny

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Hello Kenny

                        Perhaps we have it all wrong.

                        I honestly believed that Seahorses were perhaps not that scarce. There are 10 on for this week’s Wednesday Crazy Auction.

                        In contrast, the President Motlanthe issue must be rare. I see that there are only 50 odd stamps on for the same evening.

                        If we club in our resources now, we might be able to corner the market within a week or two.

                        Regards

                        Jacques
                        Philately starts where the catalogue stops.
                        Items I have for sale.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Hi Jacques
                          You are right!Judging by the number of sheets available,I think there are more on the market than the Post Office has left.If they ever release them,they will have to do a second printing as most Post Offices would appear to be sold out already.
                          Regards
                          Kenny

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Hi Guys :D

                            President Motlanthe - the dust will need to settle on this one and I agree that some restaint is needed until we all know what the situation is. I have 5 sheets in my possession which didnt take too much persuasion on my part to get the post master to release to me at face. Worst case senario will be that I can use these instead of the boring rhino's that I've used for the last 14 years.

                            I think it is irresponsible to rush these items onto BoB and later when the market crashes your alternative will either be to return to work as a part time estate agent or sell mirrors at the side of the road. The only outcome to those greedy few will be to alienate themselves from fellow collectors as mercenaries

                            :?: What if I used these stamps as postage and they were accepted by the post office and cancelled in the normal way. In this case I have not made a profit but merely used these for postage as any other person would. This to me would be far more collectable irrespective of the date cancelled.

                            I agree that the sudden increase in the amount of FDC's that have been manipulated with other stamps and then put forward as something unique needs to be stopped. The sellers of these covers are prostituting our hobby with endless political variations on covers that have no value or place in organised philately. In some cases they even use CTO stamps and dont blush when this is queried

                            What FDC will be offerd next ? Maybe a combination of rugby stamps from all over the world on our rugby 1996 cover ? What about a selection of soccer stamps on a world cup cover for next year ?. This is going beyond commercialization and is merely the raping of our hobby.

                            This is where an ethics committee would be very usefull

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Hello David

                              I agree.

                              In my opinion a President Motlanthe stamp commercially used on a normal envelope must be scarce, definitely scarcer than the alleged First Day Covers.

                              Just about everybody I know bought a couple of sheets. Yet, there is already some spirited bidding on this week’s Wednesday CRAZY Auction. Perhaps you should put up your sheets as well. Sell now, smile now.

                              Can’t wait for Saturday. The dealer with the fast sounding name will surely approach each and every dealer in the hall in private and offer him a couple of sheets as a “special favour”.

                              Just look at the wonderful “normal” items up on this week’s Wednesday Crazy Auction: Mafeking Siege, One Pound Kings Head, 2 respectable Penny Blacks, Union Officials Used, Union Essay in a large block, Missing Airmail Tag on RSA FDC, Goldblatt’s Postmark Book, etc, etc. To name but a very few – there are many smaller gems in between.

                              Better than most of the regular Gauteng Saturday Auctions.

                              It proves that there are good and solid dealers on BidorBuy. And many knowledgeable buyers willing to pay for good items.

                              Yet some people would rather bring the hobby into disrepute for the sake of a quick buck.

                              We heard it all before: I invested thousands in stamps and now nobody wants to buy them.

                              Remember the days when the Transkei Medicinal Plants Controls sold for more than the 4d Roto Upright Watermark? Nowadays the factor is 40 to 1 in favour of the 4d. History is forced to repeat itself.

                              Regards

                              Jacques
                              Philately starts where the catalogue stops.
                              Items I have for sale.

                              Comment

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