Time to get real.

[dstorm]

Hello to all, especially serious South Africa collectors

I have just read the December 2011 edition of Gibbons Stamp Monthly.

Something that caught my eye was an advertisement of Commonwealth QEII varieties (in other words modern varieties by most standards).

The items were priced in hundreds of GB Pounds, sometimes even thousands of Pounds (a full colour advert in Gibbons would be expensive, so I thank that the selling prices would be realistic).

Our own catalogued South African major varieties are still hopelessly undercatalogued with the majority priced in the SACC at a few hundreds of RANDS. Is this not a joke?

A particular (although perhaps extreme) example is the RSA 1974 3c Geranium with MISSING MAROON (SACC 361c). In 23 years of trading I have handled this stamp once, yet the item is catalogued at a mere R1000-00 – can we call it 85 British Pounds? Please list it on BoB. As a dealer, I will pay full catalogue value for an unmounted mint copy in fine condition.

Would you swop me any SACC listed RSA or Union Imperf or Missing Colour for normal stamps / control blocks with the same catalogue value? OK, what if I offer you double? Still not? If I can choose the “normal stamps” that I have to give you, I will offer you up to five times. In order not to bypass BoB, list your item at full catalogue value and I will buy it. I will then pay you with normal “high value” stamps with a catalogue value that is 5 times that of your variety.

The fact is that there has been a massive shift in demand for major varieties of almost all countries during the past few years – most catalogue publishers still simply refuse to accept this fact and still stick to “Traditional Philately".

Fortunately, most of the serious and experienced South Africa collectors understand the real values of Missing Colours and Imperfs, but what about new-comers or inexperienced collectors or especially new sellers? Too many collectors still see the catalogue as the be-all and end-all.

Please, give me some input on this.

Keep well and regards

Jacques

[voldermort]

I agree 100% with you
Remember just 15 years ago even Gibbons, Michel (semi specialised catalogues) etc had very, very few varieties listed - as I’m sure you know even to this day the simplified catalogues are not even worth mentioning. Even now there are a vast majority of varieties which are still not listed, however those that are, are doubled or tripled in price every 2^nd year or so – obviously meaning there is a demand for them.
It has taken them quite sometime to catch up simply because back in the day people were happy with normal, run of the mill items – these days the same people have evolved and want something better - hence the money spent on varieties.
What we are experiencing here with the varieties is exactly how it was in Europe as I said up until 15 years ago – therefore we shall possibly have quite a wait before the real prices of South African varieties are reflected and before all (or at least most) of the varieties are listed.
Unfortunately some of the SA collectors are not willing to pay more than perhaps 40% of SAC value (which is already ludicrous) and then even if they come across a genuine variety that is not yet listed in the SACC – the predictable response is “it’s a forgery”....simply because this is what they have learnt from philately here.

However I do believe that as happened in Europe will eventually happen here, with a lot of help from the internet......the blinkers shall come off & they will start to realise that as you say.......real philately starts where the catalogue ends.

[dstorm]

with a lot of help from the internet......the blinkers shall come off

Exactly....

[JohnBenn]

Well what can we expect - when you call the S.A P-Office Philatelic division today - it takes 3 call re-directions, and you still sit with nadda (even for a simple question - do you have the newest catalogue available?).

Jacques I've read many of your posts, maybe you should put a team together and start a book of your own...I would be the first to buy it.

[dstorm]

Hello John

I think that a book is out at this stage.

What I do have in mind is to compile a CD with images, descriptions and prices of South African varieties sold during the last few years.

Keep well and regards

Jacques

[JohnBenn]

Excellent idea.

[dstorm]

Hello all

Ten days after my original post on this subject, I have had no takers on my offers.

Perhaps I would be a bit extreme and opportunistic by assuming that South African varieties are underpriced by a factor of FIVE. Can I perhaps assume that normal South African stamps are OVERcatalogued by a factor of 2½ and that the varieties are UNDERcatalogued by a factor of 2½? Or someway in between?

The silence from the stamp dealers on BoB is deafening…..why?

Keep well and regards

Jacques

[ATA STAMP CENTRE]

HI
There is no disagreeing with you on what you state.i was not able to offer you any varieties as dont have that many.The 3c missing maroon i have sold two on bob,one as recent as last year and they realised around R600 each-i dont have another.
Varieties are a contentious issue when it comes to catalogue value,hence your suggestion on compliling a sales history will be very inventive and informative as well as realistic.
I sell mostly at R1 START even some major varieties and i allow the market to dictate the price-Sometimes i sell above the c/v if they are catalogued varieties and sometimes less.
In my opinion a variety will sell for what a collector deems it is worth and if there are two of them both wanting the same item it may well go at a high and possibly unrealistic price.
I can recall on a few occasions attaining,lets say R6000 for good variety as it was something not seen before and two buyers wanted it.
Shortly after that sale a few sellers noted the great price and a few similar items came out of the woodwork and a few more were offered.The price went down to R4000 and then R2800 FOR THE SAME item as suddenly it did not seem so rare!!!This is the exception but can happen.
BUT overall even if the varieties are undercatalogued ,if they are spectacular and n0t seen often they will in most instances realise exceptional prices ON bob-That is my humble opinion as i have experienced in my trading on BOB in last few years and as you well know i have sold many varieties.

NEIL

[voldermort]

Although Bid or Buy is a wonderful trading platform I don’t think one can really say that buyers on BoB will/can determine the price of any item as if it is an item of inferior quality, it will definitely not realise the price it is worth.

Obviously if the item is first grade that is a different story, but as we have mentioned on other threads before, parcel cancellations, rust, regumming etc all can and do bring the price down considerably, never mind the actual value of the item.

Speaking only of first grade variety items, when selling these they can and will always sell over any catalogue price. This is true too for normal run of the mill items, you will see a large majority of high priced items selling for 1/5 of the catalogue price, simply because they are not first grade quality. The same items, first grade quality, will usually realise if not full catalogue value, at least close to it.

As an eg: there is somebody on BoB right now selling a 1988 variety, started at R3000 & already the bids are over R4000, simply because it is a first grade quality real variety. The normal stamp without the variety is worth at most R2/R5.
This is a very good example of a real variety selling at an excellent price, for a variety not yet listed in any catalogue.

So then I would imagine that not only is the variety important, but the condition of the item is equally important – thus a real variety on a great condition item will always be worth far more than any catalogue will state (and this is assuming that it is mentioned in the catalogue)

As always, all just my own opinion.

[JohnBenn]

..............................

[dstorm]

The silence from the stamp dealers on BoB is deafening…..why?

Hello Neil

These are dark days indeed….

That I have to resort to such drastic measures to get input from BoB’s best stamp seller ever.

Very seriously, thanks.

Keep well and regards

Jacques

Posted before I saw the other replies to this thread.

[JohnBenn]

Hi

I just got the new SA colour catalogue(2012),and I think someone must have been barking at the ants when they set the prices.How can a single mint stamp be priced at R1.00 and then the same stamp in mint control block form R1.00 as well?